BDS PHOTO

OUSU to boycott Israel?

BDS PHOTOLast night, OUSU were debating whether to submit a motion advocating a boycott of the state of Israel to the NUS Conference this April.

The ‘Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS)’ motion would be debated by delegates from universities across the UK, were it to be submitted by OUSU.

The motion resolves the Conference to “join the global movement for Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it ends the occupation and complies with international law”.

In justifying this move, the motion states: “All forms of international intervention and peace-making have until now failed to convince or force Israel to comply with humanitarian law, to respect fundamental human rights and to end its occupation and oppression of the people of Palestine.

According to the BDS website, the movement calls for the boycott of Israeli goods, and says: “Israeli cultural and academic institutions directly contribute to maintaining, defending or whitewashing the oppression of Palestinians.”

An amendment to the motion was due to be proposed by Keble JCR President James Newton to delay voting on the motion until the subsequent OUSU meeting to allow their JCR time to debate the issue.

The deadline for the submission of motions to the NUS Conference agenda is Friday 1st March. If such an amendment were accepted, the motion would be debated by OUSU on Wednesday 27th February.

The result of the OUSU motion had not been released as The Oxford Student went to print, but were it to be passed, it would introduce the BDS motion onto the NUS Conference agenda, which is due to take place between the 8th and 10th April.

OUSU will be sending seven delegates to the Conference, including the President and the President-Elect.

Emily Cousens, the proposer of the motion to OUSU, said: “My motivation comes from the mood in NUS at the moment. Last conference passed a ‘Freedom for Palestine’ motion and this is the logical progression from that.”

She added: “My personal response to the ongoing Israel-Palestine conflict is that action must be taken to prevent the killing of innocent civilians in both Israel and Palestine and an illegal occupation that violates the human rights of thousands must be ended.”

The motion, however, has sparked opposition from some Oxford students. Ben Goldstein, a Jewish student at Lincoln, said: “The problem with the international BDS movement (as it is currently constructed) is that it threatens and alienates Israelis who would otherwise be supportive of peace moves by contributing to a feeling of isolation; it implies that ‘pro-Palestinians’ simply hate Israel.”

He also expressed concern over the BDS movement’s plans to boycott Israeli academic institutions: “It is a bad idea for OUSU to align itself with an organisation that wishes to limit academic freedom based on which country those academics come from, based on the assumption that academics must support government policy.”

Joseph Price, a student at St John’s, said: “I strongly believe that OUSU should not be political, rather a body to promote the interests of the students of Oxford and help promote their welfare; targets that will not be aided by this motion.”

On the other hand, David Hillman, a representative of the Oxford Palestine Solidarity Campaign, commented: “Oxford Palestine Solidarity Campaign is very pleased with this move by Oxford students. It lets the Palestinian people know that they are not forgotten and the justice of their cause is recognised.”

A motion has been submitted for the Keble JCR Meeting this coming Sunday in opposition to the BDS motion. If the motion were to pass it would mandate the Keble representatives to vote against the OUSU motion.

The motion states: “This JCR believes it is morally objectionable for students to endorse an academic and cultural boycott of the institutions of any country.It is an assault on academic and intellectual freedom to demand a boycott on Israeli professors, books, articles, journals and student societies simply by virtue of their country of origin.”



'OUSU to boycott Israel?' have 34 comments

  1. 14/02/2013 @ 15:53 studentofhistory

    Should Oxford University also be boycotted in response to the UK Government’s illegal invasion of Iraq? Same reasoning…

    This just looks like book burning for the 21st Century.

  2. 14/02/2013 @ 16:54 Ray Packham

    I take exception to Emily Cousens’ use of the word “conflict”, which implies a struggle if not between equals, then at least between active protagonists. The throwing of a few rocks at the American equipped IDF is not a conflict, it is a cry for help to an uncaring world.

  3. 14/02/2013 @ 18:11 Clive

    @ Ray Packham

    I think you may be mistaking “a few rocks” for “thousands of Qassam and Fajr-5 missiles”. And those rockets are fired at innocent Israeli civilians in Sderot, Ashkelon, Jerusalem etc.

    Extremists on both sides perpetuate this awful conflict: to deny that is wilfully misleading.

  4. 14/02/2013 @ 18:18 Jaime Antecol

    Is the Oxford student union really going to let a radical racist witch hunt like this carry on?

  5. 14/02/2013 @ 19:16 Ray Packham

    Clive…
    I think even Hamas would not claim that their rockets could threaten Jerusalem. It is interesting to note however that in 2012 not a single Israeli died at the hands of the Palestinians, whilst 74 Palestinians were killed by Israelis. Of course, this does not include those Palestinians who died as a result of their inability to reach medical care as a result of Israeli road closures or curfews.

  6. 14/02/2013 @ 20:00 Randoph X Smith

    It is difficult to me to fathom how rockets fired by one entity against the civilians of another can be dismissed simply because they did not succeed in killing a great many more innocents.
    I also find it disturbing when those behind the rockets base their operations in mosques, hospitals and other places intended for their general public. Clearly they invite the death of their own citizens and applaud when indeed a number of their citizens die in this way.
    But, of course, I have no fear that whatever is said will have the slightest influence on Ray dPackham

  7. 14/02/2013 @ 20:50 Asmaa adam

    I think the boycott is the only solution left. Unfortunately
    The world has yet to learn from history. However anyone would like
    Like to paint it, Israel is an occupying force destroying the lives of all Palestinians on a daily basis, one can draw a bomb in the shape of a delicate rose, but we know a bomb has one use alone!

    Many prisoners in Israel are on hunger strike,
    Choosing to die rather than live in prisons, without knowing the reason they are in there for in the first place. Beware, though the world is changing ….. The world can see what Israel really is. The conscious people of the world are waking up to justice !

  8. 14/02/2013 @ 21:54 Richard Galber

    Is there also going to be a motion to boycot Turkey for the ongoing illegal occupation and settlement of North Cyprus.
    Is there also going to be a boycot motion against China for its illegal occupation and settlement of Tibet.More people killed there than in the whole Israel/Arab 100 year war.
    Russia invaded a part of Georgia. Russia decimated Chechnya. The
    Russians are still there. Boycot the Russians maybe.
    The list of countries to boycot and sanction because of war, internal suppression, extra judicial killings etc is endless.
    There seems to be an inordinate concentration of effort on the tiny Jewish state called Israel. Sometimes one has to wonder why. Some kind of hidden agenda maybe.

  9. 14/02/2013 @ 23:06 Clive

    Ray,

    Hamas launched M-75 rockets at Jerusalem last year – luckily, unlike those launched at Ashkelon, they caused no injuries or fatalities.

    My understanding was that in 2012 there were 6 Israeli deaths from militant rocket fire and 250+ injured, from a regular assault of over 2000 rockets. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel).

    Palestinian deaths are of course as tragic as Israeli deaths, but so long as both sides continue using violence, surely they’re both to blame? Blaming one side alone when extremists on both sides are responsible is not a productive means by which the end of this protracted conflict might be brought nearer.

  10. 14/02/2013 @ 23:54 Ricardo

    Clive kind of misses the history. Claiming “both sides are responsible…” completely ignores the fact that Arabs have been killing Jews (& Copts, & Druse, etc.) for a lot longer than Israel has even existed. Those bloodthirsty and totally unjustified attacks demand defensive actions by Israel. Matter of fact, International Law, that bete noir of left-wing impudence, International Law requires a nation to protect her citizens. This is not a situation where “…surely they’re both to blame…” as he so deftly misconstrues the evolution of the conflict.

    Further, one of the reasons there have been as few Israeli deaths as there have been is because Israel devotes huge effort to protecting her citizens, including new, vital technology to defend against rockets. The Arab aggressors deliberately locate their illegal arms in places which will inevitably produce civilian casualties if they are located and attacked – in violation of International Law. Yet the Brits – those far-sighted souls who established an Inquisition two centuries before the Spanish – the Brits are determined to blame the Jews. Again. It’s a cultural thing. If you’re British, you must hate that “shitty little country…”, as the French ambassador put it while ingratiating himself to British society. And Israel has become the code for “Jewish”. It had become de rigeur to excoriate Israel for fabricated failings even while it is less acceptable since the Nazi fulfillment of the pan-European, Church-inspired dream to eradicate the Jews. The Muslims state clearly what their goal is, and the Brits intend to help them fulfill it.

  11. 17/02/2013 @ 00:00 Castor Troy

    I assume this is just a first step and that a boycott on China for their occupation of Tibet will follow. Morocco for their occupation of West Sahara. How about Indonesia for East Timor? Russia? Anyone for Turkey? Or could it be that OUSU does have a fixation with a particular people?

  12. 18/02/2013 @ 14:50 iris claire blutreich

    Oxford University is built on much of what was a thriving Jewish community. The Jews arrived there in 1080.

    St. Aldates street was called Great Jews Street.

    Jews were prevented from engaging in most of the trades so to survive they became doctors, teachers, pawnbrokers.They played a role in the intellectual life of the University and engaged in academic exchanges with Roger Bacon and Robert Grosseteste.

    1. In 1228 the house of Moses son of Isaac was given by the king to build Guildhall and successive Oxford Town Halls.

    2.The medieval synagogue was located in the area of Christ Church’s Tom Quad gate

    The Jewish Burial grounds were near the river Cherwell and are incorporated in Magdalen College and the Botanic Garden

    1n 1275 Usury was outlawed.

    Jews couldn’t make a living because they were excluded from the trades. They were forbidden from owning any building that they didn’t live in. The Queen confiscated much of their properties and they were forced to sell their other properties at a loss.

    Merton, Baillol and Christ Church were endowed with properties owned by medieval Jews.

    So now the Oxford Student Online BDS is proposing a boycott of Israel and Jewish businesses. They call it a movement for justice, equality and freedom.

    How small and disgusting!

  13. 24/02/2013 @ 22:44 CG

    It is frightening to read the rubbish written by the supposedly brains of Britain, do you honestly have no idea what Israel is doing? only yesterday a 30 year old Palestinian father of 2 died while being tortured in an Israeli prison, http://palsolidarity.org/2013/02/rip-arafat-jaradat-israeli-prisons-latest-casualty.

    Something that happen every day to thousands of Palestinian men, women and children, it was raised last week with the European Commissioner for justice during her visit here to Oxford, http://www.addameer.org/etemplate.php?id=293.

    What both sides are the same? who do you think you’re fooling? no one but yourselves and when others decide to boycott you, not to believe or trust you, you call that racism, Israel is now on the same terrorist list as Iran and Zimbabwe http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/israels-human-rights-record-concerns-uk/

    It’s shocking how you’re twisting the facts, here’s what Israeli mothers think of your support http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgFLDcWR3iE , it’s what’s keeping the cycle of violence alive, adding flames to the fire and creating enemies across the globe., with friends like you, who need enemies!!

  14. 25/02/2013 @ 02:46 Ricardo

    Me’s statistics remind me of the kid who murdered his parents then pleaded for mercy because he was an orphan. Hamas continues to insist that they have the right to kill all Israelis – and indeed all Jews throughout the world. For such aggression, Israel has not merely a right, but a duty to aggressively interdict any efforts toward such dastardly ends. Deceptive statistics purporting to show injustice are merely distractions from the reality that Hamas are a miserable bunch of murderous tyrants. Pretending otherwise may get a sympathy vote, but that’s a real tragedy, since the Arab propaganda machine has distracted truly empathetic people from the real horrors of human destruction while shining false light on their own self-induced misery.

    Where are their data about Hizballah, Fatah, & Hamas contributing to the massive slaughter in Syria? That’s a real & totally iniquitous killing field. What about the horrific Muslim killings in North Africa? Can we see some comparable statistics of that misery? How about the murders of a couple of hundred thousand Christians in Indonesia? Or the Algerian civil war with hundreds of thousands dead?

    Killing terrorists is a GOOD thing. Pretending those terrorists are “freedom fighters” is a grotesque deception. They are religious fanatics. They have counterparts in other religions, but most other religions have grown beyond killing infidels en masse. Islam is a long way from that progress. Until they arrive, let’s look at who is really the aggressor, where there are really tragic body counts, and what sources of violence are first causes. Hint: think Islamic Fundamentalism & virulent religious intolerance.

  15. 25/02/2013 @ 08:39 CG

    Oh Dear, reading Ricarod’s message explained couple of things

    1) the students have no idea what they’re voting for or what the real situation is about.

    2) They are using Israel to carry out their raciest plans, what does Israel/Palestine have to do with North Africa, Christians in Indonisia, Algerian civil war?

    3) They’re also using Israel to get rid of their ‘enemies’ because of their own hatred to Islam, not because they care about Israelis.

    Then want us to think about fundamental and religious intolerance, isn’t it obvious who is intolerant of who?

  16. 25/02/2013 @ 13:03 Richard Galber

    As your graph shows, 10 Palestinians have been killed in the 3 months since the last Gaza skirmish.
    In that time how many Arabs and Palestinians been killed in Syria and Lebanon.
    It would be very interesting to study the Palestinian deaths in Gaza and the West Bank.
    If there is a security barrier with armed guards and someone tries to pass over it, it is certain that they will get hurt or killed, dependent on their threat to security/security personal.
    If you play with fire you can get burnt.
    The best thing is for the Palestinians to elect a new government or two, and then sit down to proper negotiations with Israel.
    Both of the Palestinian governments are past their electoral use by dates, and are therefore neither democratic, representative or legitimate.

  17. 25/02/2013 @ 14:25 CG

    I’m not sure why should Palestinians pick any more representative? when their lives and their children’s lives are at constant risk their land is contaminated, water polluted, no access to their land with the separation wall, because of the Balfour treaty which put them in this position.

    As Britain kindly and generously gave our land away nearly 100 years ago, it’s time for all displaced Palestinians to come and live here, and start fresh new lives, we’re not that many and will sort out this problem once and for all, do you have a problem with that?

  18. 26/02/2013 @ 22:41 hophmi

    It’s gratifying to see that most commentators here reject anti-Jewish racism.

  19. 27/02/2013 @ 12:09 CG

    It’s great to see that the BDS movement is not anti-Jewish, it is to protect the Palestinians, especially the children http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/26/israel-palestinian-children-injustice

  20. 27/02/2013 @ 14:03 Ricardo

    CG – you’re full of self-deception. It’s possible to spin anything, and the terror supporters like you are very busy doing what they can to justify the endless indoctrination of Arab kids into Jew-hating, Western-hating, good little martyrs willing to blow themselves up to ensure that the despots of Arabia can continue in power. Even after all the Arab “Springs”, the tyranny continues unabated. It’s really convenient to distract people from the real first causes of all the violence. It’s not the Israelis, who are merely defending themselves against more than a hundred years of Islamic dominance theology & concomitant violence, it’s not the Israelis who are the problem. They are the scapegoats. People like you who support the terrorist aggressors & their violent determinism, you are the biggest part of the problem. I’d say you’re worse than the terrorists. You give them aid and comfort, are perfectly willing to see Jews die for the sake of Arab imperialism, and yet you risk nothing of your own. And to top it off, your justifications are bogus, nothing but lies & deception.

  21. 27/02/2013 @ 15:25 CG

    Ricardo, I have no idea what kind of people you usually speak to, but don’t you ever speak to me with that bullying tone, you are entitled to your opinion and so am I.

    There is NO self deception anywhere, the study was carried out by 9 senior British lawyers (QC’s), and these are their findings, if your racism didn’t blind you, you’ll download the whole document and read their findings, and their recommendation, which none were carried out.

    Your apparent hatred of Arabs is frightening, in fact, I do hope that you are not an Oxford University student, because with people like you around, no moslem or Arab student in the university will be safe, I am seriously concerned about the welfare of Arabs and Moslems in Oxford with people like you around.

    You believing of Arab imperialism and moslems are terrorist is exactly were the problem is, not every Arab or moslem is a terrorist, discrimination and victimization are illegal in this country and if you are right now in this country, then it’s time you are reported.

  22. 27/02/2013 @ 16:01 Ricardo

    CG – so sorry you misunderstand me. I don’t hate Arabs. I hate stupidity. I hate selfishness. I hate lots of attributes, but I judge people as they are. I hate terrorists because of the violent attributes they act on, and there are an awful lot of Islamic terrorists. As to your misunderstanding of the world – it’s easy to take any subject and distort it. The Brits, for instance, were employing antisemitism many centuries before the word even was crafted. But they didn’t consider their Inquisition evil or hateful. They were really ahead of their time. The Spanish took another two hundred years to get to that antisemitic solution. The Brits were really only teaching peace & love & other such devotional lessons as instructed by Jesus. And this stuff got twisted by revisionists and projected as something entirely different from the loving expression it really was.

    So. too, a lot of what passes for instruction regarding Muslim aggressions against other populations they rub up against. Whether it is in Asia, in Africa, even in Europe, there is a lot of Islamic friction. But it is only in the Middle East that such antipathies are distorted by antisemites into perceptions of Israeli aggression. People bemoan the “harassment” of Palestinians who get searched for bombs & weapons. But I never hear any reflection on the fact that Israelis undergo exactly the same searches, and for exactly the same reason: That the Arabs have been killing the Jews of Palestine since the 1880’s (long before there was an Israel, in case you didn’t know it), and the Jews would like to continue to live. As has been repeatedly & articulately expressed by lots of terrorist leaders, “The Jews love life but we love death more”. As Maya Angelou has so prominently enjoined, “The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.” I have no reason to doubt the Muslim terrorist organizations. They have shown by word & deed who they are, who they intend to be, what their values are.

    I am hardly biased against individuals because of their religion or their ethnic origin. My bias is against the violence for which some people employ their religion to justify. It happens that my kids’ babysitters were Muslim. You’re just another biased ass to think that my antipathy to your ignorance and hostility is racial. It is deliberate, focused on those who would kill me and my family merely because of my heritage. And of course they would kill you because you’re Christian, though they have prioritized well and will first go after easy pickings, us Jews, before they overtly take on the harder task of all of Western civilization. But they have already begun that greater task – and publicly said so – having begun with the subtle indoctrination they are using to infiltrate their biases into the teachings of many countries. and with blatant attacks on free speech, banning any criticism of Islam. Ironically, even though they are trying to kill us, they still commit lots of effort to killing each other. Where is your criticism of the Muslims who are killing their fellow Muslims? And the Muslims killing Hindus & Buddhists? The Muslims targeting Filipinos? The Muslims killing & enslaving Christians & Animists in North Africa? I take it you only support the Muslims who want to kill Jews, judging by your published focus. What do you suppose that makes you?

    As to your lawyer thing – I have very limited respect for lawyers. You know what they say – 99% of lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. Why didn’t the sharks eat the lawyer who fell off his sailboat? Professional courtesy. How many lawyer jokes are there? Only three – the rest are true. So, no, I’m not even going to bother trying to read something so likely tendentious and false. That you believe it says more about you than you are capable of admitting to yourself.

  23. 27/02/2013 @ 16:53 CG

    Ricardo, I am really sorry to hear of your worry about moslems, it is not fair or right for you to have such fear from anyone, what’s been happening over the last 70 years is complete distortion of the day to day reality so they can justify a Jewish state.

    Even when there was civil war in the Arab countries (Lebanon, Syria), the Arab spring, no one at any stage did anything to Israel for the simple fact that no one is an actual threat to Israel, these countries have enough to deal with within their own boundries, Israel is the least of their problem, especially when their citizens are uprising or suffering.

    What you are saying is normal, over the last 70 years Israel raised generation after generation into believing the whole Arab world around them is against them, every Israeli citizen is brought up to serve in the IDF, demolish Palestinian homes, seize their land, how can they get generation after generation to do these inhumane acts, if the whole system didn’t prepare them for it?

    Of course the Jews don’t see anything wrong with calling arabs terrorist? or what they’ve been doing all these years in wrong? they think they’re doing the world a favor and encouraged with the support and weapons they receive from the west.

    So your prospective of life is completely different to mine, I’ve never been Jewish, I’ve lived with people from all nationalities, including in the middle east, I’ve never felt threatened nor did anyone try to convert me into Islam.

  24. 28/02/2013 @ 03:02 Ricardo

    CG – I’m delighted that you have such a mellow view of life. It may not reflect reality, but it’s nice to feel at peace with the world. If only the world would reflect that peace back.

    Unfortunately, you err. The Jews of Palestine have been attacked for 130 years. And for all that time, the vast majority of Jews – and indeed, for much of that earlier time in modern Palestine (the region), most of the Muslim & Christian population, too – tried to be good neighbors. There are numerous stories of friendly relations between the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim communities, though even then there were hostile attacks against Jewish communities & even against those Jews who had lived in Palestine since Biblical times. By the 1920’s, the Grand Mufti began organizing & leading much more bloody attacks to kill Jews. This was well before anyone thought of forming an independent Jewish state. That only came after the UN decided that there was no other way to keep Muslims from killing Jews except to create two separate states.

    I remember chatting with some non-Jewish Israeli kids whose families had suffered periodically from raids on their community. They finally built an enormous shelter from which to defend themselves when the nomadic attackers approached. This was not a very peaceful part of the world. And it still isn’t. Your observations notwithstanding, there has been a lot of violence in that region. None of it caused by the Mafia.

    You claim that the Arab world is merely a series of peaceful neighbors? Not so. When some Arab leaders tried to make peace with Israel after its founding, they were assassinated. When the UN tried to establish two nations (actually three if you include Jordan), the Jews agreed, and seven Arab nations attacked. At the conclusion of that first war, the countries which had conquered what should have been a Palestinian nation merely occupied the territory they had overrun, and there was no talk of any “Palestine”. It is only since more recent attacks by Arab nations against Israel, and Israel’s successful defense against those repeated attacks, that this deceptive imperative has been used as a supplement to the failed aggressions by Israel’s neighbors.

    As to not seeing anything wrong with calling Arabs terrorists – you’re the one saying that. I merely refer to those terrorists who claim to rely on Islamic doctrine as Islamic terrorists, or sometimes as Arab terrorists. That’s because that is as accurate a description as can be had. I don’t deny that there were Jewish terrorists. Would you tell me that I can’t use that expression either in my criticism of the Stern Gang, for example? Get real!
    It sounds like you really don’t know the history of the region if you can make such ludicrous claims as you have claimed. Israel teaches its children to yearn for peace and justice. The neighboring Arab communities boast of virulent textbooks & their summer camp training is classic racist doctrine. You’ve seen the pictures of rows of young kids lined up with mock suicide belts on. That only happens among the Muslims neighbors.
    You’re right, though, about most Israeli non-Muslims serving in the IDF. Were it not for the IDF, the Jews would all be dead. You must have heard the speeches of Hizballah Chief Nasrallah, of numerous Hamas leaders, of even the PLO & various other terror groups. They all talk about killing Jews, driving them into the sea, pursuing them even when they hide behind the something-or-other tree. You can’t make this stuff up. But you can brainwash yourself to pretend it’s not true. It’s called selective cognition, and you are a fine example of it.

  25. 03/03/2013 @ 10:37 Castor Troy

    Word, Ricardo!

  26. 03/03/2013 @ 19:49 CG

    Castor Troy, as you don’t seem to have anything better to do on a Sunday and waiting for Ricardo to entertain you, I thought I’ll have a look at what side of the fence are you sitting.

    I read your article with interest because it’s called fight hatred, yet nothing in that article is about fighting hatred, the girl have legitimate reason to be asking to boycott Israel.

    She is a Palestinian, Israel was built on the destruction of Palestinian land and their people, who else is meant to be raising awareness but Palestinian people themselves?

    Palestinian people didn’t invade Israel, they didn’t move to Israel, they lived on that land for thousands of year before the state of Israel was created in 1948, what do you think it was in 1947? it was Palestine, today they’re portrayed as terrorist for trying to survive, I promise you that if mother Teresa or the pope decide to lead the Palestinians, you will be accusing them of terrorism too, that’s nothing new, it’s the usual propaganda we’re all be brought up on.

    It’s the equivalent of emptying London, every home, business, school, hospital, bank and the next day waking up with completely different people, that’s exactly what happened, the Palestinians who were left behind, were rounded up in 5 cities, surrounded with barbed wires, soldiers and dogs, were not allowed to get out, this was the topic last week at Oxford University.

    Palestinians have every right to exist as human beings, at the moment they’re living under the most brutal occupation for more than 65 years, if you know anything about administrative detention, you’ll know they’re arrested and detained without charge for years on end, they cannot move, there are different laws for Israeli’s and for Palestinians.

    That’s not from me, UK lawyers were in Israel last year and wrote a report about the shocking facts that are happening, now Israel is boycotting the UN, EU, the fact is no one is attacking Israel, they’re just hoping Israel will behave like the rest of the civilised world.

    It must be liberating to behave anyway you want, and that’s why they’re now on the terrorist state, together with another 27 countries (many are on your named list too), because they have more in common with these countries, they might as well co operate with them.

    It will be hypocritical of the EU to be asking new European countries to jump through hoops to be admitted into the EU, when the honorary state is on the terrorist list, don’t you think so?

  27. 04/03/2013 @ 01:55 ricardo

    CG – except for the fact that your assertions are largely false, your logic might otherwise provide some basis for justification. And since you ignore many of the underlying Muslim aggressions and provocations which led to the UN establishing Israel, you fail to provide any accuracy or balance in your recitation. Let’s see…

    Israel was NOT built on the destruction of anybody’s land. Just the opposite, in fact. Jews who had lived in places like Hevron for thousands of years were attacked & killed by Muslim terrorists led by Haj Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, decades before there was any hint of an Israel. Other Jews who had lawfully purchased and built on land in the region were attacked and killed by Arab marauders. Indeed, in the late 1800’s, Palestine was a largely depopulated backwater. The Jews who began purchasing land and establishing agricultural communities & intellectual settlements triggered economic growth which led to an in-migration of Arabs from neighboring countries. Then in the 1930’s, the British brought in 100,000 laborers to build railroad lines throughout the region, and these Arab immigrants settled into this blossoming area. These are the “thousands of years” residents you refer to?
    You claim that “Palestinian people didn’t invade Israel”. That’s actually not very accurate. Palestinian people were busy killing Jews well before there was an Israel, for sure. But when Israel was declared, Palestinians from Jordan, along with Muslims from 6 other countries, invaded the newly established Israel. And the newly established Palestine. When Egypt occupied southern Palestine, and Jordan occupied West Bank Palestine, that wasn’t Israel’s fault. Upon their military conquest, the Jordanians & Egyptians oppressed the Palestinians and refused to allow them to resettle and establish normal lives, that wasn’t Israel’s fault, either.

    Then you blather on about the establishment of Israel. The UN established Israel PRECISELY because the Palestinians would not stop killing the Jews of the region. If Palestinians were living under the brutal occupation for 65 years, the first 20 of that were under the brutality of their own brother Arabs. And after Israel was attacked in 1967 and captured the lands she overran, the only reason for any ongoing occupation was the ongoing attacks against Jews. All the Palis have to do is make peace and there will be peace and the related benefits to all. Gaza is the more accurate reflection of why the occupation seems so harsh. Gaza was given freedom and great economic opportunity, and the citizens destroyed all the prospects of prosperity within days. That Palestinians are beaten & murdered in Gaza by Gazans is never remarked upon, but it brings into question your notion that Israel is the principle purveyor of violence & oppression in that region. Guess again.
    Then the UN again. That illustrious organization which is held hostage to the oil producing nations, that body which established Israel and yet has never permitted Israel to become a full member in international affairs alongside the other 192 or so nations, many of which have distinguished themselves in their own far worse violence & intolerance than ever could be ascribed to Israel.

    You are spewing fictional fabrications. Israel is hardly flawless, but many of her flaws derive from the endless violence of her neighboring Muslim murderers. “Kill for Allah” is hardly an inducement to rational discourse & peaceful rapprochement. Your accusations are largely groundless, misdirected and uninformed. If you want to find the cause of the region’s troubles – and those violent problems extend from Indonesia through the Far East all the way through the Mideast and down into Africa – I’d suggest you examine the teachings of Mohammed, and his diligent, blood-thirsty followers who to this day murder & enslave hundreds of thousands of individuals whose sole crime is to not be Muslim. Or even to be the wrong kind of Muslim. It is not a pretty picture.; That’s why so many people are determined to blame someone else for the problems caused entirely by Islamic bloodlust.

  28. 04/03/2013 @ 07:25 CG

    Good morning Ricardo, hope you had a nice weekend

    There’s nothing false about my assertions, if anyone want to know the facts, they should go there and see for themselves, a group of 27 from Oxford were there at the beginning of this year, anyone is welcome to go and listen to the shocking events they witnessed and been through, they were not attacking Muslims, they were Christians from Oxford.

    The speaker in Oxford used to teach history in Israeli schools, he was saying how they knew that it was all made up against Palestinians, but their purpose was to get these kids through the curriculum with the best grades, please don’t try this here.

    Ricardo, it’s 2013, that’s what really matter, what is happening today and now to the Palestinians trapped in Israel, that’s the only reason there’s a boycott and that’s what this topic is about, all the other never ending propaganda mean nothing to me or the millions who had enough, get onto any Christian united for peace, Jewish voices for peace, international Jews against Zionism, etc, the only thing you support is keeping the world blinded with hatred and create history as you go along.

    Have a lovely day

  29. 04/03/2013 @ 13:46 ricardo

    “There’s nothing false about my assertions,,,,” “Palestinian people didn’t invade Israel…” No? Then who did? Martians?
    “…they’re living under the most brutal occupation for more than 65 years…” False implications here. The first 20 years of this “brutal occupation” were by Jordan & Egypt… you refuse to acknowledge both aspects of that reality. The remaining occupation arises from the determination of Arabs to continue to kill Jews until they’re all dead. This allegation is widely announced in a multitude of pronouncements from both civil & religious authorities. You refuse to acknowledge that horrific threat reality and flowing from this you don’t even notice that current circumstances are merely logical consequences of such bloodthirstiness.
    Of the 100 million refugees in the 20’th century, only 3/4 of one percent remained unsettled after more than a few years. That would be the Palestinian Muslims. This fact is due to the intransigence of neighboring Muslim nations who refuse to permit resettlement and who continue to support & encourage violence. There were far more Jewish refugees who fled Arab lands, and they got no financing from the West, yet they are all resettled.
    This intransigence is all about Arab aggression and has nothing to do with any injustice save the injustice that my taxes are paying for the great-grandchildren of Arabs who fled the war zone and continue living on the dole. This is the only people in the world who refuse to get a life. “Brutal occupation” my ass. They are immutably violent, and are dealt with by the defending Israelis as necessary to protect their own civilians who are otherwise marked for murder.
    So, yes. Your assertions are false. They are mis-contextualized, they resort to elisions & false premises. They reach conclusions based on ignoring real and central precursor events which do not support your preconceptions. Yep, it’s clear that your assertions are false, deceptive, tendentious and presumably derive from long-standing cultural bigotry which has been an important part of British imperialist cultural hegemony. That’s MY prejudice. It’s more reality based than yours.

  30. 04/03/2013 @ 14:56 CG

    Ricardo, “Palestinian people didn’t invade Israel…” No? Then who did? Martians? Just from this sentence, I know that your whole article is not based on any facts and won’t be reading any further.

    If you don’t know the real facts of what actually took place until 1948, and how the Palestinians found themselves occupied in their own country, then the rest of your article is pure rubbish.

    The world can hardly keep up with facts let alone made up propaganda, so please do not waste my time or yours, this is not million years history, many of the people who moved out of Palestine or stayed there are still alive or kept records.

    I also want to make it clear, especially when William Hague last week promised the American before Obama’s visit to Israel, of the UK’s co operation with the peace efforts, I know with people like you, there will never be any peace, but keep up this cycle of violence for many years, which is backfiring on us and our families.

    There’s only one position I’m planning to take, I do not support terrorist countries, none of the 28 including Israel, end of.

  31. 05/03/2013 @ 03:05 Ricardo

    Fascinating. You do not support terrorist countries. You have chosen to redefine the word, joining so many others who are using inverted language to attack Israel while she struggles to defend herself against bullets & now linguistic legerdemain.
    The real history is that Jews have lived in Palestine since antiquity. In the late 1800’s, many Jews fled pogroms in Eastern Europe, buying land and establishing new lives in Palestine. Are you proposing that Jews should not be allowed to purchase land? That was what the Europeans did to the Jews, which is one of the reasons they fled back to their native homeland.
    By the end of the First World War, the murderous, racist Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was organizing and leading Muslims to attack & kill Jews. This bigot later became famous for fleeing the British police and eventually becoming an adviser to Hitler. You favor his Jewicide & his NAZI alliance, presumably, since you are hostile to Israel for many more decades than she has even existed.
    There is no point in further debate, You have subverted history to your own evil ends, distorted facts to fit your prejudice, and imagine untruths to be true. Perhaps characteristic of your errors of reasoning are such vital distortions as your observation that “…what actually took place until 1948, and how the Palestinians found themselves occupied in their own country…” There had been NO country in that part of Palestine since the Roman conquest of Judea two millenia earlier. That Jews were trying to live there peacefully while Muslims were trying to kill them off speaks volumes about the origins of the present conflict. And that you would alter the actual history of this period tells a lot about your preconceptions.
    There are none so blind as those who will not see. Get yourself a white cane.

  32. 05/03/2013 @ 07:06 CG

    Ricardo, I redefined nothing, this discussion is about boycotting Israel because of it’s military occupation of the Palestinian people.

    My biggest fear is what are we going to find once we get inside Gaza, West bank and the refugee camps around?

    They’ve been cut off the human race for the last 65 years, they’ve existed on trying to survive in the most barbaric existence, the majority of the population is under 15, most have been detained and tortured, didn’t get proper education or a normal life with check points every couple of miles, where do we start?

    Look at the map to see how they’re scattered around, there’s no connection between Gaza, West Bank and the camps, divide and rule, how can they start building a future together.

    68 years ago, when the allieds opened the concentration camps and got the Jews out, they were shocked with what they’ve found, but it was 6 years, this is more than 10 times, most of them don’t know what freedom is about, that they are humans like everyone else on this planet.

    Every decent human being have a moral duty to boycott Israel until the Palestinians are free, the military occupation has to end and get out of Gaza and west Bank, the separation wall is dismantled, and no more administrative detention, no more kids disappearing, no more women giving birth on check points, no more homes bulldozed, no planes blowing them up before every Israeli election, no phosphorate, no polluting their air and water, there’s no excuses or justification for this to still be going on after all these years.

    Today’s talk ‘International report on Israel’s role in global repression, delivered by International Jewish anti Zionist Network, doesn’t that tell you something?

    Christians and Jews have had enough of your rubbish, you don’t speak on behalf of the Jews, you have turned all of us into the world’s enemy.


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