Debate: This House believes Islam is a religion of peace

Debate: This House believes Islam is a religion of peace

Ayes: 286

Noes: 168

handley debateIn a timely debate, held just 24 hours after the religiously motivated incident in Woolwich, the Union considered the question of the nature of Islam.

Proposition speaker Matthew Handley started the debate by grounding it in recent events, deploring the previous day’s “reprehensible act in Woolwich”, a sentiment that he was sure would be shared by Muslims around the world.

Handley continued by separating the religion of Islam from the individuals who “violently hijack faith for violent and maniacal ends” and maintained that the Qur’an has an “overwhelmingly peaceful character.”

In the light of the “decade long surge of violence and aggression” against Islam since 9/11, he summarised the debate as a choice between “love and hate and rejection, peace and conflict” and concluded: “I hope you make the right choice.”

Speaker Anne-Marie Waters, council member of the National Secular Society, began the case for the opposition by denying that she and her fellow opposition speakers cause fear of Islam and blamed instead “the actions of Islam itself”.

She listed “9/11, 7/7, Mali, Somalia, gender discrimination, forced marriages, polygamy, amputation”, and many more. To the opposition’s claim that these acts belong to an “extreme fringe” which has misunderstood the words of the Qur’an, she described the executions for blasphemy and apostasy in Saudi Arabia, and asked “has there ever been a more spectacular misunderstanding?”

Waters concluded by arguing  that it is the moderate Muslims who must “dance around meanings” and “stretch interpretations” when confronted with the fundamentally violent ideology of the Qur’an.

Adam Deen, a prominent Muslim intellectual and founder and director of the Deen Institute, countered this by arguing that “if we approach Islamic teaching fairly and objectively, there is a golden thread that runs through whole Qur’an,” an ideal of “justice” and “positive peace”.

He argued that in fact the whole of Islam is compatible with “just war theory”, in which “the virtue of avoiding violence is superseded by the virtue of justice.” He then quoted from the Qur’an which states: “Fight in God’s cause but do not overstep the limits. God does not love those who overstep the limits.”

Daniel Johnston, journalist and editor of what he called the “not very right-wing” magazine Standpoint, called Islam “the most direct threat to Western civilization in the world today”.

Johnston deplored the lack of “freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, equal rights, and separation between church and state” in Islamic countries, emphasizing that “all these ideals emerged in the West.”

Johnston claimed that a university like Oxford, with its tradition of free academic inquiry, could not exist under the conditions of an Islamic state and that “there is no university in this sense in the Islamic world”.

Muslim journalist Mehdi Hasan, political editor of the Huffington Post, warned Anne-Marie Waters that her “astonishing claims” might endanger her future as a Labour Party candidate, but assured her “don’t worry, the BNP will take you”.

Hasan asked why, if Islam is “responsible for killing,” such a tiny percentage of believers actually participate in violence. He asked the audience if they really believe that 1.6 billion people are all “followers, promoters and believers in a religion of violence”.

Hasan urged them not to “fuel the arguments of the phobes and bigots and legitimise hate”, but to “trust the Muslims that you know and that you hear.”

Opposition speaker Peter Atkins, former Professor of Chemistry at Oxford, concluded the debate by describing Islam along with all other religions as a “supermarket of ideas and instructions” from which good and bad men can select what they want “according to their taste.”

However, he claimed that Islam “does in practice inspire more violence than the other Abrahamic religions”.

Taking on Adam Deen’s metaphor of a ‘golden thread’, he argued that “the opposite of peace is woven into the fabric of the Qur’an.”

Atkins declared that “all the seas incarnadine cannot wash the blood from a religion’s hands”, because “when evils destroy a human life, as they did yesterday, that life cannot be restored”.  He called on the audience to oppose the motion “for the sake of humanity.”

245 Responses to "Debate: This House believes Islam is a religion of peace"

  1. TheRaginPagan  26/09/2013 at 17:00

    A cure for disbelief, huh? What about where they say that your god makes us not to believe, and intentionally leads us astray?

  2. GordonHide  27/09/2013 at 09:24

    @Hussain Fahmy – September 26th, 2013 – “We can all do well; if we can learn to respect each others faith and space.”

    I’m afraid respect has to be earned. The most you should expect is polite consideration.

  3. GordonHide  27/09/2013 at 12:01

    @Hussain Fahmy – “The message of Islam is perfect”
    When you think you have the answer then you should know you have gone seriously astray. The human condition is so complex, involving as it does billions of years of evolution, that any philosophy, religious or not, might as well have been scribbled on the back of a fag packet for all the chance it stands of offering a comprehensive guide to life.

  4. Johnny  05/10/2013 at 18:53

    Typical of Muslim Mehdi Hasan to use the race card to implicitly threaten Anne-Marie Waters that her future as a Labour Party candidate might now be in jeopardy. It is how the left have shut down all questioning of their open door policy and appeasement to Islam.

  5. Vir Narain  10/10/2013 at 16:48

    Are we gaining anything from this prolonged ‘dialogue of the deaf’? The true believer’s faith is unshakeable. Look up Aurther Koestler on the true believer. Accept defeat!

  6. TheRaginPagan  10/10/2013 at 17:15

    Accept defeat? Yeah, real peaceful of you there, dude.

  7. Vir Narain  11/10/2013 at 05:20

    I meant Give up! Do not waste your time.

  8. Shafeesthoughts  24/10/2013 at 13:54

    My latest blog explaining the Jihad of Islam: http://shafeesthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/the-development-of-jihad_9.html?m=1

  9. mohsin  25/10/2013 at 15:11

    islam is not a joke that any one say anything about it and we listen if we muslim say
    anything about any other religion you all say islam is bad because he say about our religion
    if you say about islam than it is you right good joke

  10. Vir Narain  25/10/2013 at 16:21

    See what I mean?!

  11. Iqbal  25/10/2013 at 17:10

    A special type of bud grafting, is taking place in Muslim society, specially by those who usually call us ” terrorists ” . Who is Osama bin laden and what is Al Qaeda?, these are American creations a few years back, at that time they were in need of them to be used against Russia, but when they turned against their own creator they were called Jihadi terrorists. When America says Jihadi terrorists, it must be taken as a joke or a point to laugh, rather than be taken as serious…..ha ha ha

  12. Tyler W.  18/11/2013 at 15:38

    Archaic logic is great, the problem is that the Koran or Bible or whatever has the ability to justify and promote killing. This is blatantly immoral. How about you take the Koran and cut out all the passages that is not the contemporary moral zeitgeist of your followers, and call it “Book that Teaches Morality”.

  13. Avi Swift  11/12/2013 at 07:47

    I’ts kind of interesting that most if not all of terror attacks today have have some kind of connection to islam.I’m sorry but no other religion promises paradise to those who blow themselves up killing innocent people in the name of jihad(holy war). So unless killing women and children is a joke to you than maybe this is something to consider.

  14. Mohamed Guennouni  17/12/2013 at 22:07

    @Avi, very ignorant statement on your behalf. 1) Jihad does not mean holy war. 2) Nowhere in the Qur’an is it mentioned that if you blow yourself up you’ll go to paradise; a) bombs did not exist at the time and b) God condemns the killing of innocents, according to Islam, even in times of war, the rules are just. 3) In response to : ” I’ts kind of interesting that most if not all of terror attacks today have have some kind of connection to islam” (Swift).It is also kind of interesting that most foreign military action is concentrated in the Middle-East. The prominent religion in the Middle-East, as you might be aware of, is Islam. Therefore, if you take these two facts into consideration, you might conclude that people being oppressed in their own country often feel the need to retaliate. Thus, whether one agrees with the logic of Al Qaeda or not, whether one is Muslim, Christian or Buddhist; if it is the only resource made available for them to avenge their innocent loved ones (that might’ve been killed by some wrong-doers pertaining to the military of the country stationed there such as the U.S. Kill Team); it is only natural for some to undertake that path. Also, one has to keep in mind that any principles may be perfect but their adherents might not. For example, if a high school graduate commits a rape or murder would you blame the school system for indoctrinating him with his aggressive behavior or would you blame the person’s own beliefs? Islam is a religion of peace, one must not be making the wrong links, read the Qur’an and do your research; you would find that your arguments are preposterous. One must think before forming an opinion, especially one so offensive to a massive group of human beings.

  15. H.N.B  18/12/2013 at 08:51

    Well, I agree with your first point but regarding your second point I tend to have a slightly different opinion. Quran, on several occasions call Muslims to go on a war with nonbelievers for the establishment of an Islamic rule. (Some References: Quran (2:191-193) Quran (2:244) Quran (2:216) Quran (3:56) Quran (3:151)). We could see similar issues in the Old Testament but the main difference is that the verses of violence in Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as pertinent or idiosyncratic as other versus.

    Please do not get me wrong, Islam on many occasions also sends a message of peace and harmony but it is also a fact that it also states otherwise and I do find it very confusing to read contradictory statements within a book. I understand that most of the times these violent versus could only be circumstantial and relate to a very specific situation but then whatever the context is; this slogan of being a peaceful religion should actually not be promoted. I would definitely not blame a school if a student commits a crime but I would definitely like to see if there is anything I could improve in the school system to prevent such issues in future and the unfortunate issue with a fixed creed is that it is considered to be eternal truth and cannot be fixed.

  16. mc  06/02/2014 at 20:58

    the entire debate took place straight after the beheading of Lee Rigby, which show how great cowards students at Oxford Union are. One has to betray own senses to claim that Islam is a religion of peace, especially in contemporary times, when terrorist attacks in the name of Islam are occurring on daily basis.

  17. mc  06/02/2014 at 21:25

    Btw, a good rebute to Hassan’s speech can be found here : http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/07/mehdi-hasan-tries-fails-to-prove-that-islam-is-a-peaceful-religion

  18. Khurram  13/03/2014 at 05:26

    This was great debate. Truth always wins so it did. suppression of muslim community from everywhere could only be plan without any reality. It is also true that if you put tiny bad spot on very clean piece of cloth then you will start defining whole cloth is uncleaned. I believe that there was no space of argument after Mehdi Hassan question from that audience that if you think that Islam is not religion of peace and every terrorist act is happening because of Islam then why all Muslims aren’t doing that why only little minority is taken as representative of Islam. why the opposition is not ready to understand that Islam is just being used for these heinous crimes. I believe either they are innocent or they don’t want to understand this fact. .

  19. TheRaginPagan  13/03/2014 at 05:28

    “It is also true that if you put tiny bad spot on very clean piece of cloth then you will start defining whole cloth is uncleaned.”

    Quite clearly, you are not an artist.

  20. Raf  21/04/2014 at 12:54

    @mc have you all forgotten the 1 million people that died in Iraq and Afghanistan, of which approximately 100 000 were children as a result of Western invasion in the Middle East? And you ask is Islam a religion of piece? Ignorant idiots, most of you haven’t even picked up the Qur’an to actually read for yourselves what it says yet you want to tell us Muslims what the Qur’an actually says? A lot of you just reinforce what stupid journos write. Jihad doesn’t mean holy war, it means to strive in the cause of god, to struggle. Let us not forget the Palestine Israel conflict, where the US funds Israel $3-6 billion per year to destroy homes and Palestine’s water systems! On the topic of peace, isn’t it the US and Israel who have nuclear weapons and tell other countries they cannot, furthermore Israel being the only country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons.

  21. camila  25/04/2014 at 07:08

    If Islam is a religion of Peace, then it would not make its follower do ANY ANY terrorism acts. The fact that there is Al Qaeda, Wahabi sect who believe that moslems, the believer of Islam do terrorist acts, and influence other people to commit terrorist act is the proof that Islam does not 100% a religion of Peace.
    If Islam is a religion of Peace, moslem terrorist would not believe they will go heaven after committing act of terrorism or pray before doing the act.

  22. Anonymous  27/04/2014 at 09:15

    you have not heard the debate completely, Answers of all of your questions are there but if you are really looking for it. It was great argument that how many “muslim” terrorist are there in the world and how many muslims are there who doesn’t do it. If Islam’s teachings are so then why 99% muslims are not involved in these kinds of activities. But this is problem with opposition of Islam that they see what they want to see. But truth is truth.

  23. mc  17/05/2014 at 21:17

    Raf have you forgotten that 400.000 people died under Talibans before Western invasion? Have you forgotten that 1.300.000 died in Iraq and Iran before Western invasion? Have you forgotten that 2.000.000 people died in Sudan before any Western intervention in this country? Have you forgotten thousands of people murdered and oppressed all across the ISlamic world ?

  24. mc  17/05/2014 at 21:18

    Moreover raf, the 1 million is myth. the number of deaths in iraq is about 170.000 (www.iraqibodycount.com) and most of them died not because of the WEst but because of the holy warriors.

  25. Vir Narain  18/05/2014 at 06:17

    In whose name is the Boko Haramm acting?

  26. jn  29/05/2014 at 11:26

    @avi Islam doesn’t at any occassion promote the idea to win paradise by blowing people up! Before critisizing,atleast bother to have a little information on the topic that you are actually criticizing! Islam is purely a supporter of peace and justice and teaches its followers to maintain peace no matter what…and for your kind info,we are the ones being blown up by you people in iran,iraq,pakistan and countless other muslim countries.At the present moment 1.6 billion muslims exist in the world thus Islam being the second largest religion and such a great majority can’t be a follower of voilence! Open up your eyes before concluding! And bother to search for the atrocities on muslims in Iraq and the drones in pakistan….several million muslims are killed every year which clearly proves we are the ones being killed by others and certainly not the ones killing others. Kindly open your eyes to reality.

  27. Allen Goh  11/08/2014 at 06:56

    The Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, Bahais. Conficianists, Taoists, Jews, Sikhs, Atheists, Communists) and other Infidels (terms used to non-believers of Islam) have in years past
    emigrated to the western countries. They have contributed in their own way to their adopted
    country without fanfare in very many ways. They have intergreted into western society well.
    They have made few if little demands of their host country. They live PEACEFULLY and draw little attention to themselves. They are PROUD to call themselves…Americans, British,
    Germans., French. Dutch etc They have NEVER trumpeted that they are US, British German, Dutch ( etc ) Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Taoists (and so on).
    In comparison, it’s the Muslims (and I am NOT saying ALL Muslims) who draw attention to
    themselves if not their faith by making all sorts of demands on the societies they live in.
    One glaring example “We want our own pools. Our own schools. Our own this that and the other” None of the other faiths make such demands. If they wish their own facilities, well,
    they gat their act together….purchase land and build their own facilities without ALL of society and their local rate payers having to stomach out the money.
    Another very glaring point…In the main western countries where they have emigrated to. in the Phillipines, Sri Lanka,. India, Burma, Thailand…..it’s the Moslems who seem to draw
    attention to Islam in unspeakable ways. Again, I’m NOT saying ALL Moslems….so get that clear in your mind. You just don’t hear the adherents of other faiths loudly proclaiming
    their faith or their presence. As many Australians and others have said. Australia is a Free country. A country built on freedom of speech and living. If you choose to live in that place, you abide by their rules. If not you, whever you are, are FREE to leave. No
    is preventing you exercising your FREE choice to depart. Remember for Allah’s sake that
    you left your home country for a reason and we won’t go into that. So if you think you made a terrible mistake, don’t perpetuate your error any longer than you have to. Your adopted country might be glad to repatriate you (and you family) home …FIRST CLASS.
    I have a plaque on my front door which reads “Everyone brings us Happiness
    Some when they arrive and others when they go”
    So there you are …child of Allah. Child of God. Confucius said (among other analects) DO NOT DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT
    YOU WOULD NOT LIKE DONE UNTO YOU. The best way of Broadcasting
    your Faith and attracting others to it is living it,,,,,,NOT forcing your ungodly beliefs
    on others. Finally leave Allah / God to deal with those who disbelieve in him or
    blaspheme him. If he is that mighty and great. he can mete out the appropriate
    punishments or rewards himself. He does not need stupid Unworthy and sinful people to
    to do it for him and let’s NOT pretend for a single moment that he has given us permission to commit murder on out fellow human beings
    Pax Vobiscum.

  28. Scott Ross (@DrScottRoss)  26/10/2014 at 20:25

    Where are the leaders of Islam? Why aren’t they coming together to denounce these terrorist organizations?

  29. Leah David  07/11/2014 at 05:41

    @drscottross They’re there, representatives and scholars, and denouncing the terrorists organizations as loudly as people are willing to listen. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/09/muslim-condemn-extremism_n_5947706.html

  30. Leah David  07/11/2014 at 06:09

    @Allen Goh Careful. What you’re describing there sounds oddly like the awkward period of assimilation* Australia went through a while back before it decided multiculturalism was probably a good way to go. You’re also not only attacking Muslims’ right to identity and free expression, but throwing in any people of a non-Western background. We don’t do that in Australia.
    (As you said, it’s a free country.)
    *Cultural assimilation: Being made to abandon the expression and practice of your personal culture, and take up the culture of the majority instead, to be accepted. It was messed up. But hey, we grew out of it, right?

  31. virnarainVir Narain  07/11/2014 at 08:30

    The recent beheadings have provided a convincing answer. If for no other reason than respect for those who have lost their lives, should we not discontinue this interminable debate?

  32. c  14/02/2015 at 10:26

    A few days ago, we had a school trip to visit various religious places including the Islamic centre in which we were able to discuss issues of current world news related to Islam with one of the Muslims. He made it clear that the whole central theme of the Qur’an promotes peace. The Qur’an is the longest untouched book in terms of its many translations; not one singe word or phrase has been changed. The problem is, people of the “Western world” including the UK misinterpret the texts of the Qur’an; they twist the thoughts of these to create a backdrop into labeling the Islamic religion and the people who belong to this religion as “terrorists.” Perhaps even more so, is the fact that the majority of non-Muslims have not even picked up to read the entire Qur’an for themselves, so how are they able to make a judgment for these people? Furthermore, we discussed about how the role of media plays a significant part in being able to morph, change things into any way they feel like, with a very strong influences on the people who watch it. I feel like the events of the Jews being prosecuted and used as scapegoats in Germany during World War 2 are being recreated again.

    It is true that these terrorist attacks are occurring, but one should never condemn everyone under the religion of Islam as terrorists. Why is it that when a Christian terrorist kills people, it never gets to the news? Why is it that all Muslims are the only ones to blame? It is fair to say that those certain individuals who are terrorists should be blamed for, but it is not right to categorize these small individuals in a much larger category.

    I am currently studying “The Reluctant Fundamentalist” by Mohsin Hamid for English Literature. After the 9/11 attacks, America judges all the Muslims as if they are terrorists. Having a beard is even socially unacceptable in Western society; it makes these men vulnerable and viewed as sly and untrustworthy. Not only that, but when it comes to airports, they face huge discrimination, violating the equal human rights. The quote “don’t judge a book by its cover” truly applies to this context. How can the world judge the Islamic religion as a terrorist organisation when we are only judging small and certain individuals out of billions of Muslims and label them as that?

  33. virnarainVir Narain  14/02/2015 at 11:46

    You are free to believe what you were told on a school trip – especially since. It suits you argument.
    But here is what the Ayatollah Khomeini – whose knowledge of the Quran would be difficult to dispute – had to say: “Those who follow the rules of the Koran are aware that we have to obey the laws of qissas (retribution) and that we have to kill… War is a blessing for the world and for every nation. It is Allah himself who commands men to wage war and kill.” How many more beheadings – and live burnings – by the Islamic State do we need before we start entertaining some doubts?Have a heart …

  34. c  15/02/2015 at 13:42

    @virnarainVir Narain “by the ISLAMIC STATE”, please stop categorising every muslim into this. Watch this video if you haven’t already https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw These cnn reporters ask the same old questions every time, “what followed wasn’t the intelligent conversation it should have been, but rather a stale regurgitation of the same silly loaded questions hosts have been asking for more than a decade” stop generalising Islam “”you’re talking about a religion about 1.5 billion people and certainly it becomes easy to just simply paint them all with a single brush”, have some perspective…

  35. c  15/02/2015 at 13:50

    @virnarainVir Narain Also, have you had the incentive to read the Qur’an page by page yourself instead of just being mindlessly convinced by what one man has said about it? Perhaps then you can truly make a judgement of your own on what the muslims “obey” before the words of the Qur’an. Did Ayatollah Kohmeini quote from the very words of the Qur’an itself.

  36. virnarainr Narain  17/02/2015 at 07:38

    As if on cue, twentyone Christians have been beheaded in Egypt. Yet we must remain steadfast in our belief that religion is peaceful!

  37. c  19/02/2015 at 15:55

    “It would be as grave a mistake to see Osama bin Laden as an authentic representative of Islam as to consider James Kopp, the alleged killer of an abortion provider in Buffalo, N.Y., a typical Christian or Baruch Goldstein, who shot 29 worshipers in the Hebron mosque in 1994 and died in the attack, a true martyr of Israel. The vast majority of Muslims, who are horrified by the atrocity of Sept. 11, must reclaim their faith from those who have so violently hijacked it.” Karen Armstrong, Time magazine

  38. Allen  19/02/2015 at 15:58

    Gods I’m getting so tired of seeing e-mails crop up from this stupid shit. Who cares what a bunch of apologetic douches in Oxford think? There’s no such thing as a peaceful religion, period.

  39. Sylvia Lax  11/04/2015 at 17:02

    The White House is wrong! Islam is not a religion of peace. It will go to war and massacre it’s people (and others) in the name of religion (G-d). That doesn’t make them religious, it just means that they are a crazy terrorist. They are using their religion as an excuse to kill and also to occupy (just like the time of the crusaders). How can they be religious when they broke all of G-d’s 10 commandments (which by-the-way – Jews ,Christian and Muslim belief in). The Islamic faith broke all of the commandments from; not to use the name of G-d in vain, to not to kill and to not to covet your neighbors’ house, wife, and anything else that belongs to him. I’m not trying to go religious on you – but my point is their should be no mistake between people who observe the laws to those who believe you have to kill for it. Their is a difference between a religious person and a terrorists. Islam is not religious they are terror – a real nightmare. Islam wants to take control – occupy and wants to blame Israel for it’s problems.

  40. Sylvia Lax  12/04/2015 at 12:43

    you think i should be more moderate; o.k.
    today in the news (4.12.2015) it was written in the press that ‘Islamic group released footage showing jihadists demolishing the ancient Assyrian city of Nimrud……latest attempt to wipe out Islamic history’. History never seems to change nor do the tactics of the Islamic Nation. For example, the Dome of the Rock – (according to Wikipedia) is situated in the center of the Temple Mount, the site where it is believed that the first and second Temple had stood. To set things clear the Dome is built in the center of Temple Mount where the first and second Temple stood. It’s not belief, it’s an historical fact.. Today – I’ve heard arabs say the darnedest thing about the Dome 1) that the Jewish agreed to the building of the Dome on the Mount and 2) It was built in time of peace. Neither reason are true – but that’s what they want people to believe. The temples was captured and destroyed just like the incident that happened this week in Nimrud. And in both incident the arabs entered the city to control, to conquer and to massacre – claiming it in the name of G-d and to wipe out history. There tactics haven’t changed from them to now! Has I said before their is nothing peaceful about the Islamic people that they believe that they can destroy cultures or change history – THEY CANNOT!
    They are killers, they are terrorist, and like I said before; their is a difference between a religious observer whom obeys g-d’s law to that who believes they should kill in the name of G-d (there is a difference). There is also a difference between ‘ones freedom fighter to another ones terrorist’. Lets not distort words – The arabs are not freedom fighters and they are not a religion of peace! You are probably mad at me for not saying it’s done by Islamic Fundamentalist and that I keep on referring it to the Islamic Nation but what do you want me to say when 90% of the arab MODERATES who are educated in the free world believe in their cause! To me that’s disgusting, because nobody is asking them to change their way of life and nobody is taking away there freedom of believes so why are they forcing their way of life on us – by their lies.

  41. Dr-Essam Afify  20/07/2015 at 13:33

    Are you know Islam ?? if your answer is no , To everybody don’t know Islam Don’t speak more … at first you must read about Islam … i’m a Muslim I know Islam very much & I know that Islam is a religion of peace

  42. Vir Narain  20/07/2015 at 16:25

    Ayatollah Khomeini is replying to Western apologists and Muslim moderates by citing the Koran chapter and verse on the subject of the definition of “jihad,” or holy war:

    Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled and incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. But those who study Islam Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world . . . Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this man that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this man sitting back until [non- Muslims] overcome us? Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender to the enemy. Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Koranic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet} urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all that mean Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”
    Clearly, you know the religion better than tha Ayatollah.

  43. Peter g  02/08/2015 at 13:30

    I would not claim to be a christian. But I am struck by the account of Jesus and the woman taken in adultery whom some nasty judgemental hypocrits
    wanted to stone to death according to that stone age law. Let him who is without sin throw the first stone. They all left by ones and two,s. I find this account has much to teach whether christian or not.
    I am not a Jew but I recall, Jeremiah the PRophet stating,First circumcise your hearts, not your bodies. I think there is something in that for everyone.
    Perhaps the last I can recall,is Peace! Peace! They cry. But there is no peace.

  44. Allen  03/08/2015 at 16:26

    This shit is still going on? Bloody hell; Oxford is not a social god, and there’s no such thing as a peaceful religion.

  45. Peter Going  03/08/2015 at 22:11

    Dear me. No.
    These brilliant young minds cannot a be a kind of syncretic God. The appetite for swallowing camels is not associated with any god I can think of. I’d have to reject the idea that the result suggests intellectual dishonesty, since I’m sure that these people could dissect a gnat with precion. I can only think that they have discovered a method of reason and judicious argument which would have been beyond the understanding of their serious forbears.

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